Grand Slam 3/Grand Slam 3.iso/026/idig46.arj/IDIG46.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1995-03-06 | 106KB

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:15 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1651] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
>       Does anyone know of a utility to convert GUS patches to WAV or
> VOC.  And then (possibly a separate util) to .SMP (Scream Tracker Samples)?
>
>       Thanks in advance.
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
>                  "Live Long and Render"
>
>
>
>
I have a util that will take MODs and save/load WAVs and RAWs from them, if
that helps?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:21 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1655] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950302015856.13071A-100000@[141.211.7.37]> [e-mail] writes:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Jesse Ozog <GE> wrote:
>
> > I don't see why more games are not programmed to use mod files (like
> > StarCon II).  I think that DOOM and the other mid using gmaes would have
> > been a hell of a lot better off using mods that way, and insted of
> > plopping in some MID files, just use one of your fav mod files or the sort.
> >  But that is just my ears, I prefer the mod/s3m/xm/ult  format over the mid
> > sound.  Wouldn't it also be easier to program?
>
> Well, for one thing, a lot of people have things such as MIDI boards or
> external sound modules that can play awesome MIDI with virtually no CPU
> usage.  That is something that most sound cards can't do when playing
> MOD's.
>

I agree entierly, Jesse. And the few games that do use MODs usually use
PTM (or something similar) which IPlay only supports 50%. Games such
as Jazz Jack Rabbit do not work with IPlay.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:17 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1652] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <m0rkMrh-000uzzC@netland> [e-mail] writes:
> >Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
>
> Are you really this ignorant ???
> Guess you never heard a sound canvas or something like that!
> MID and MOD are two completely different worlds, like comparing apples
> with stones or you with a genius!
> Whow, i'm sorry. That was a mean thing to say.
> Just don't say things where you know nothing of.
>
> Joost.
>
I guess when I made that last comment I wasn't really thinking. However, please
look at my reply to the other reply (if that makes any sense!).
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:42 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1656] Re: SB Routines

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950302164010.13279A-100000@[141.211.7.111]> [e-mail] writes:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> > Creative Labs sell a programming kit. Contact them for info. I would give
> > you the phone no. but I don't know which country you live in.
>
> I think the whole point here, is that no one wants to shell out the $$$
> for the Creative Labs SDK.
>
Sorry (sarcasm). I was only trying to help.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:44 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1657] Re: GUS vs SB

> People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?

No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
going to get GUSes.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 22:24 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1658] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950302151650.11230A-100000@earth> [e-mail] writes:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> > Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> > all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI?
>
> As I understand it, this list is a forum for fans and users of Iplay to
> chat about Iplay and digital music and whatever other subjects interest
> them including but not limited to mod and midi formats. BTW, Iplay has the
> capability to play midis. So does the new Cubic Player.

I'm not calling you a liar, but are you sure IPlay can play MIDI?

>
> > ........................Let's face it, if you've
> > got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better.
>
> Not true.

By decent quality I meant a good Wave playing back chip, as opposed to a
high-end MIDI soundcard (Roland, Gus etc.)

>
> > .....................................I was appalled
> > by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16).
>
> A plain SB-16 playing midi is about two steps above a pc speaker. It is
> NOT the card to judge midis. Go grab the new Cubic Player and a set of
> GUS patches and you will have quasi-wavetable midi playback.

Yes, but if my SB-16 can do decent quality sound in native mode, and playing
MODs, why can't the inbuilt MIDI Player (and I suspect the situation is similar
in other cards) play with this quality?.

>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================
>
I agree that I was going a bit over the top. Sorry. I also agree with most of
your points - but on my SB-16 I'll be sticking to MODs
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 22:25 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1659] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950304110423.13903B-100000@[141.211.7.161]> [e-mail] writes:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> > Why doesn't someone write an MCI MOD Player for Windows. Full Stop. No playing
> > around with converting to MIDI. That way you can use any interface (including
> > the brilliant Media Player) you like to play them.
>
> Uhh, that's what it is.
>
That's NOT what it is. Media Player uses MCI drivers for various different types
of media e.g.

CD Audio
Video for Windows
MIDI Sequencer etc.

I was proposing a MOD driver for Media Player (i.e. an MCI driver). I have
since found one (from this list):

hornet.eng.ufl.edu
/demos/music/programs/misc
wmidas13.zip apx. 50k
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 10:30 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1643] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, Joost Baaij wrote:

> >Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
>
> Are you really this ignorant ???
> Guess you never heard a sound canvas or something like that!
> MID and MOD are two completely different worlds, like comparing apples
> with stones or you with a genius!
> Whow, i'm sorry. That was a mean thing to say.
> Just don't say things where you know nothing of.

WHoa, things are startin to get a little heated, but I still don't think
any of your comments are not without merit.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 10:31 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1644] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jacob Cossairt wrote:

> Want a good example of MIDI quality and variety of samples?  Listen to
> some Nine Inch Nails music!  Trent makes most of the music with MIDI
> keyboards and Macintoshs, added with some live drums, guitar, and Trent's
> nice lyrics of course.

I thought ALL of the sounds were synthesized?  The drums kinda sound
synthesized.

> Inertia Player doesn't support MIDI, does it?  Somebody just said it
> does.  I know it has an option for General MIDI, but I think that was
> just a trick to try to play .mod's with my SCC-1.

I still haven't figured out what that is supposed to do.  Some people
claim to get some output, but I think it's just one big lie.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 23:33 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1662] MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

Hi, guys....
Thaks for FTP addresses of Cubic Player.....
I've tried it with ULTRASOUND patches and I think it's beautiful
(but it's a little BUGgy......)

Well, one of my friends wants to know what are MEGAEM and ULTRAMID
software.... can you help me?

Ah, for votation: I've a SB16 (but i will buy an AWE32) and this friend of
mine has a GUS.

Thank you in advance and excuse me for usual poor english!

Bye!!!!!

[e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:18 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1653] Re: MIDI? Why?

> In message <[e-mail]> you write:
>
> >Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> >all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
> >got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
> >by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
> >why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
> >
> >Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
> >        most songs).
> >Any instrument you want.
> >You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
> >It's nowhere near as confusing.
> >It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
> >        I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
> >        equipment.
> >
> >I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> >saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
> >most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> >Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
>
> Oh man, you're not even serious, are you?  MOD originally was 4 channels,
> the instrument samples were 8 bit 16 kHz.  Of course a lot has changed,
> but 16 bit samples are still very rare (only ULT and FT2 suppor them).
> MIDI is up to 32 channels with samples as good as it gets.  Of course if
> you have the junkiest sound card in the universe you won't get much out
> of MIDI, seeing that the quality is completely dependent on your hardware,
> but with proper h/w, MIDI beats modules any day in terms of playback
> quality.  Of course you're right that there are no limitations on the
> variety of instruments in MOD, but also GM is only a subset of MIDI.
> Conclusion: both MOD and MIDI have their place, MOD is more flexible,
> less h/w dependent, but quality wise MIDI wins hands down.  And it's
> most certainly not going to "go out of fashion".
>
> Jensi
>
>
>
I suppose you've got a point about both having their place, but I'm going to
stick to MODs, because even on a naff soundcard they sound good (and mine's
not that bad). I still have two points unanswered:

1. MIDI quality on my soundcard (an SB-16, but I suspect it's similar on others
                is appaling. The instruments only sound vaguely like what they
                are meant to be.
2. Why are we talking about MIDI? Isn't this meant to be a MOD-list?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:11 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1663] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950302151650.11230A-100000@earth> [e-mail] writes:
> > On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
> >
> > > Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> > > all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI?
> >
> > As I understand it, this list is a forum for fans and users of Iplay to
> > chat about Iplay and digital music and whatever other subjects interest
> > them including but not limited to mod and midi formats. BTW, Iplay has the
> > capability to play midis. So does the new Cubic Player.
>
> I'm not calling you a liar, but are you sure IPlay can play MIDI?

I've been called worse ;-) If you have Iplay 1.2, run I setup and get into
the device selection menu. You will see a General MIDI selection. I think
what it is supposed to do is play mods through a GM device. I have never
gotten it to work but I really haven't tried very hard.  Someone on this
list I believe got it to work but the results were disappointing. Whether
this selection is there as a hook for the next version (so like CP it will
play midi) or not I really don't know.

> > > ........................Let's face it, if you've
> > > got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better.
> >
> > Not true.
>
> By decent quality I meant a good Wave playing back chip, as opposed to a
> high-end MIDI soundcard (Roland, Gus etc.)
>

I agree with that. I find that the sound quality of mods on a Sound
Blaster 16 using I play with 256x oversampling or MOD4WIN with IDO is
second only to the GUS or AWE-32 in their native modes.

> >
> > > .....................................I was appalled
> > > by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16).
> >
> > A plain SB-16 playing midi is about two steps above a pc speaker. It is
> > NOT the card to judge midis. Go grab the new Cubic Player and a set of
> > GUS patches and you will have quasi-wavetable midi playback.
>
> Yes, but if my SB-16 can do decent quality sound in native mode, and playing
> MODs, why can't the inbuilt MIDI Player (and I suspect the situation is similar
> in other cards) play with this quality?.
>

I think cost is the biggie. Making a decent CODEC (digital audio, i.e.
wave and mod) is much less costly than the ROM/RAM and midi engine needed
to do midi justice. Just for the heck oh it why don't you try out Cubic
player with the GUS patches to play some midis. You might be surprised by
what you hear on your SB-16. If you need help getting CP, the GUS patches
or some good midis, email me. I'd be very glad to help.

> I agree that I was going a bit over the top. Sorry. I also agree with most of
> your points - but on my SB-16 I'll be sticking to MODs

No big deal. Your SB-16 is a very good card for most audio work (including
mods) except midi. Until I got my first wavetable sound card (an AWE-32) I
had exactly the same opinions as you do about midi. If you should have a
change of heart, you could always slap a MIDI daughterboard on it and
really shake the house down with midi as well as mods.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:18 EET
From: [e-mail] (ZACH HEITLING)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1664] [NERTIA-TALK:1657] Re: GUS vs SB

-> No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e.
-> people who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are
-> therefore going to get GUSes.
-> --
-> Andrew J Ferrier

Excuse me!?!?!? I have *NO* money yet I follow the demo scene as far as it
goes, and the point of me having an SB16 is only because I can get the Roland
add on...  And you just contradicted a major point to the Gus' Defense...  The
reason people buy the GUS is to get good quality out of DEMOS and TRAKKER
modules...  Some buy it for the MIDI capability, If you want it for games,
that's another story...  The GUS is a very cheap card pricewise, and sounds
decent for the price...  But hey, you just defeated that so.....

Zach


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:42 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1668] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Sat, 4 Mar 95 11:33 EET,
Andrew Ferrier  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Why doesn't someone write an MCI MOD Player for Windows. Full Stop. No playing
>around with converting to MIDI. That way you can use any interface (including
>the brilliant Media Player) you like to play them.

That's exacally what MIDAS player does!!!

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:37 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1667] Re: Midas

On Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:25 EET,
Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>OK, now that you got it, can you please bug the hell out of the author of
>this fine piece of software, so he makes a version that works with a
>Turtle Beach Maui, before he starts doing AWE-crap?  I really would like
>a MOD player that takes no processing time.(Well almost).

Why should I bug him, I'm happy with GUS support.  Also, I thought the Maui
was a MIDI card.  Does it have RAM?

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:32 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1666] Re: Midas

On Sat, 4 Mar 95 07:20 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
>> Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
>> couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!
>Your statement is very confusing to me Chris. You *seem* to be comparing
>one player's performance in Windows to another while you are in a DOS

I'm comparing 2 WINDOWS tracker players.

>session under Windows. Not apples to apples. I'm not familiar with Midas
>but could it be using the GF1 while M4W is using the wave driver?

Yes, M4W has no GUS support while Midas does.  GUS users will want to
switch over.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:30 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1665] Re: GUS vs SB

On Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:59 EET,
Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Uhh, I think the whole point here is that the survey is for MOD players
>in general.  That's why it's on this mailing list.  Since we obviously
>aren't solely concentrating on IPLAY?  But I'm sure you could've figured
>that out all by yourself.

Does the author of Inertia Player even READ this list?  It dosen't seem to
which seems kind of strange.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 02:31 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1669] Re: Midas

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Mar 95 07:20 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
> >> Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
> >> couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!
> >Your statement is very confusing to me Chris. You *seem* to be comparing
> >one player's performance in Windows to another while you are in a DOS
>
> I'm comparing 2 WINDOWS tracker players.
>
> >session under Windows. Not apples to apples. I'm not familiar with Midas
> >but could it be using the GF1 while M4W is using the wave driver?
>
> Yes, M4W has no GUS support while Midas does.  GUS users will want to
> switch over.
>

Or convince our friend Jensi to add GUS support. I'd prefer that because I
like the interface, the accuracy and the file management that M4W offers.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1602] Re: S3m and GUS Patches


> > Hi,
> >       Does anyone know if I can use the GUS patches to compose with in
> > Scream Traker?  Thanks
> >
> > Jamie McCarter
> > [e-mail]
> I don't know about your prob. directly, but if you can get them in .WAV format,
> I think I know of a util that can convert to .SMP (Scream Tracker Samples)

    That's a bit of a pain to do, and the loop points are lost.
Better (perhaps) to use a tracker that allows you to directly import .pat
files.  (I believe UltraTracker and FastTracker 2 both allow one to do this.)


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1597] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

The following message is edited:
> On Wed, 1 Mar 95 04:12 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Agreed. But most newer games support the AWE-32 directly with excellent
> >sound quality (doom, doom2, heretic, descent, ROTT etc).
>
> DOOM?  I never remember seing AWE32 as an option...
>
> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager

V1.666 has AWE-32 as an option. I think this also applies to 1.5 but I'm
not sure. Check your version on startup.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 09:37 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1670] Re: MIDI? Why?

Hi,
1.  On your SB-16 you probably have an OPL-3 which is a FM chip.  All midi
    stuff goes through that.  the OPL-3 is just slighly above the
    adlib's chip.  See my point?
2.  Well, there are two sides to music on a PC, MIDI and MOD.  To just discuss
    one seems narrow minded.  In the future there will become no two
    separate formats.  MIDI and MODS will have merged.  You can see it
    happening today, i.e. Building your own samples.  MIDI, or real midi
    like that found on the sound canvas and such use digitized instruments
    to make the music,  Sound familiar?  MIDI's are bassically just like
    MODS - except that we have really decent hardware built for them.
    With the advent of the GUS and Turtle Beach boards we now have MOD
    hardware.  In the end, it is all really the same.  Except on your
    SB-16 where it treats the MIDI files to your lovely FM chip.
_____________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
                 "Live Long and Render"


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1578] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:
>
> Because it is the best, most compatible card for general use. If you are a
> mod freak you buy a GUS. If you are a midi freak you buy a Sound Canvas if
> you are a midi freak who likes to upload your own samples you buy a TB
> Monterey.

Not really.  The Turtle Beach Monterey is basically a Turtle Beach Rio
attached to a Turtle beach Tahiti.  The samples are sent via the MIDI
interface and it is extremely slow.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1577] Re: GUS...

On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Lewis A J wrote:

> Why is it called progress?  I'd call it starting all over...
>
> The correct approach would be to produce a card with all the standard
> compatability, with some extra feature... Then see if it is good enough
> to become part of the standard...  There is NOTHING that the GUS does that
> the AWE32 doesn't.... So why make the gus totally incompatable... If the gus
> was SB compatable then the facct that it was available earlier may just have
> meant that the standard was GUS, and not left hanging to go to creative!

I disagree.  Look at PCI for example.  PCI is not compatible with ISA
slots, while VLB is, however PCI is clearly the better choice since it
offers much more expandability over different platforms, and it doesn't
get bogged down when you have several local bus devices running at once.
The GUS is Sound Blaster compatible...  err, to some extent.  Besides
from what I have heard the AWE isn't totally Creative Labs compatible.  I
heard of problems with either SB or SBPro.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1576] Re: AWE-good?

On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> > Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
> > have to run faaaaaaast. :)
>
> Please e-mail it to me or tell me where I can get it.

Could I get a copy of that also?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:10 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1672] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950302020344.13071C-100000@[141.211.7.37]> you write:

>On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Ng Cheng Kiang wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 95 04:39 EET, "Cuthalion / Sliced Bread" <[e-mail]
>> wrote:
>>
>> > > IMHO, even on a GUS, they (the MIDIs) don't sound quite as good as compa
>red
>> > > to them being played on PLAYMIDI or Windoze players. Wonder why. I do ag
>ree
>> >     I would assume that this is due to: Flakinesses in the loader,
>> > and: the fact that it only uses 16 channels.  I think PlayMidi defaults
>> > to 22. :)
>> Ah...so that's why. Oh well, v1.x might be much better. :)
>
>Speaking of PLAYMIDI, does anyone know how to get it to play on another
>sound card?  I've got a turtle beach maui, and I would love to have it
>play under DOS.

My friend, the GUS and the Maui employ totally different hardware to achieve
MIDI playback.  DOS doesn't have a driver concept and is completely
hardware dependent.  Every DOS application must support whatever hardware
it is intended to run on directly.  Therefore, an application written for
the GUS doesn't have the slightest chance to do anything useful with the
Maui or any other soundcard for that matter.

Go Windows!

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:11 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1673] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 23:33 EET
> From: [e-mail]
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1662] MEGAEM & ULTRAMID
>
> Hi, guys....
> Thaks for FTP addresses of Cubic Player.....
> I've tried it with ULTRASOUND patches and I think it's beautiful
> (but it's a little BUGgy......)
>
> Well, one of my friends wants to know what are MEGAEM and ULTRAMID
> software.... can you help me?
>

MEGAEM and ULTRAMID are two of the emulations the Gravis comes with that
allows the GUS to use Soundblaster, Roland Sound Canvas, General Midi,
and a few other different sound card's codes.  That way, if a games you
have  doesn't support Gravis Ultrasound (and many don't) all you have to
do is run MEGAEM and/or EMUSET or ULTRAMID, and set your game up for,
say, a Roland Soud Canvas.

> Ah, for votation: I've a SB16 (but i will buy an AWE32) and this friend of
> mine has a GUS.
>

Applaud your friend!  Everybody I know who has a Gravis, is quite
impressed with it.  I have a Gravis Ultrasound Max and I love it.  There
are a few things about the MAX that, I believe, makes it a much better
buy than the AWE32: 3D Holographic Sound, GF1 mixing chip (amatuer
programmers love this), free developement kits (also a boon for
programmers, thus making amateur programs, like demos and mod players
easier to get), and it costs over a hundred dollars less.

> Thank you in advance and excuse me for usual poor english!
>
> Bye!!!!!
>
> [e-mail]
>
>


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:18 EET
From: "Jesse Ozog <GE>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1674] Iplay 1.21

I recently stumbled across the 1.21 version of everyone's favorite mod
player, Iplay. but anyway, I recall hearing about the Isetup.exe or
whatever it is called, was infected with a virus (tpian or something like
that). What i am inquiring about is, what should the size of the exe be
(uninfected)?  I just used my trustly (yet blind) MSAV to test it, but it
came across clean (go figure).  I am going to try some of the newer
anti-virus progs ...MAcFree, Fprot, ect.  But once again, what should the
exe size be?  Thanx for your undivided attention.

Jesse Ozog
I-NET: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:39 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1675] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303224923.25352D-100000@earth> you write:

>On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:
>
>> >That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
>> >optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
>> >Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
>> >to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey.
>>
>> Nah, you forgot the AudioTrix Pro, the Maui, and the Tropez.
>>
>
>I forgot about the Maui and the Tropez. I was totally unaware that the
>ATP was capable of that. Could you perhaps give us a short list of the
>ATP's wavetable characteristics? Such as the ROM size, RAM as shipped/max
>useable and any unique features of the card? It sounds interesting :-)
>
>--
>========================
>Sam
>[e-mail]
>========================

Hi, it's me again.  I just read through my own reply that I wrote yesterday
regarding this request and I realized that there were a number of typos in
there, so to be nice and accurate I repost an editied version today.

_____________________________________________________________________________


Ok, you asked for it.  The AudioTrix Pro is characterized by its two main
chips, the Yamaha YMF278B (also known as OPL4) and the CS4231.

The CS4231 is a multimedia spec compatible digital audio codec/mixer that
provides two modes of operation.  Mode 1 is pin and register compatible
with Windows Sound System (AD1848) and provides stereo DAC's and ADC's
for record/playback up to 48 kHz 16 bit stereo.  There are also a line
input, an aux input, and an attenuated mic input.  All inputs can be
mixed, attenuated, and muted independently in realtime.  Mode 2 provides
several enhancements over the AD1848, most notably ADPCM de-/compression
in hardware (0 CPU utilization), an additional aux input, a mono input,
a mono output, and support for 2 independent DMA channels for simultaneous
playback and capture of waveforms.

The YMF278B is a combined FM/wavetable synthesizer chip that is register
compatible with OPL2 and OPL3 and adds a 24 voice polyphony wavetable
synthesizer.  In combined mode up to 44 voices can be synthesized
simultaneously.  The wavetable synthesizer provides independent LFO's,
envelop generators, and filters for each voice.  It can handle 8, 12,
and 16 bit waveforms for any sample.  Samples can be taken from ROM or
RAM, the combined address space is 4 MB.

The AudioTrix Pro ships standard with a 2 MB ROM that contains all GM
patches and drum sounds in a compressed format.  It also adds a custom
ASIC to emulate MPU-401, GM, and SB in hardware.

The following modes of operation and compatiblity are available:

* CS4231 (mode 2 of CS4231)
* WSS (mode 1 of CS4231)
* SB digital audio (custom ASIC)
* OPL4 FM/wavetable (OPL4 native mode)
* SB Pro music (OPL3 mode of the OPL4)
* AdLib (OPL2 mode of the OPL4)
* MPU-401 (custom ASIC)
* GM (Windows drivers or through MPU-401)

The custom ASIC is controlled by an onboard MicroController that is
software programmable, therefore updating the firmware is as simple
as downloading a file from the ftp site and replacing the old one
with it.  I have done this twice already and got a better soundcard
each time.

In addition to the above mentioned features, a RAM daughterboard and
a DSP daughterboard are available too.

The RAM daughterboard extents or replaces the ROM patches, so single
patches, or the complete patch set can be replaced to the customers
liking.  Currently, only a 512 KB daughterboard is available, 1 MB,
2 MB, and 4 MB daughterboards are planned.

The DSP daughterboard comes in two variations.  The standard version
processes only the output of the OPL4 (both FM and wavetable).  Up
to 3 effects can be applied at the same time: Reverb, Chorus, and one
of Flange, Pitch shift, Delay, Stereo Delay, Equalizer, 3-D sound,
and SRS (surround sound).  Each effect is controlled through several
parameters that can be adjusted in realtime and provide virtually
infinite variations of the sound.  The second version of the DSP does
all of the above, and additionally processes the line in and mic in
ports.

Several daughterboards to interface various types of CD-ROM drives
are also available.

The card has an internal connector for CD audio in, and external
connectors for line in, mic in, audio out, and a combined MIDI/
joystick port.  The combined port can be used either for a single
joystick + MIDI IN/OUT/THRU or for dual joysticks.  To interface
MIDI equipment, only the proper cable and no breakout box with
additional circuitry is required.

Ok, this is all pretty much from a technical point of view, seeing
that I'm a technical person ;-)  For the subjective/sound side I can
only say it kicks royally.  I have this board for about 8 months now
and have been very happy with it.

Finally, for those of you who would like to find out more here is
two ways to do that:

1. ftp://ftp.mediatrix.com/pub/mediatrix contains a number of press
   releases and spec sheet type of docs about the AT Pro.  Software
   updates are also released there and are available to the public
   for free.
2. Call 1-800-820-TRIX and ask them for their free demo CD.  This
   CD was recorded entirely on a standard AudioTrix Pro and
   demonstrates the capabilities and potential of the card.  It
   gives a brief history about PC sound with numerous examples,
   from PC speaker to GM and h/w ADPCM.  The second part contains
   GM tracks played on the AT Pro.  The CD is very informative and
   I recommend everybody to call and ask for a copy.

Hope this gives you an idea...

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:47 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1676] Re: GUS...

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950302023602.13071H-100000@[141.211.7.37]> you write:

>On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Lewis A J wrote:
>
>> Why is it called progress?  I'd call it starting all over...
>>
>> The correct approach would be to produce a card with all the standard
>> compatability, with some extra feature... Then see if it is good enough
>> to become part of the standard...  There is NOTHING that the GUS does that
>> the AWE32 doesn't.... So why make the gus totally incompatable... If the gus
>> was SB compatable then the facct that it was available earlier may just have
>> meant that the standard was GUS, and not left hanging to go to creative!
>
>I disagree.  Look at PCI for example.  PCI is not compatible with ISA
>slots, while VLB is, however PCI is clearly the better choice since it
>offers much more expandability over different platforms, and it doesn't
>get bogged down when you have several local bus devices running at once.
>The GUS is Sound Blaster compatible...  err, to some extent.  Besides
>from what I have heard the AWE isn't totally Creative Labs compatible.  I
>heard of problems with either SB or SBPro.

True.  We can't have SB compatible sound cards forever.  I mean, heck,
eventually someone's gotta realize the implications and make something
better.

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:20 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1654] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> > Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> > all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
> > got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
> > by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
> > why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
>
>       Sorry about the followup to your offtopic post..  :)  Ok.  MIDIs,
> with a decent MIDI synth can sound WAY better than most mods do.  Why?
> The instrument quality is not limited by disk space.  Ok.  44 kHz 16 bit
> samples?  Wow, that's going to make your mod be one of those 600-800K
> ones that sounds oh-so nice.  (Example:  Dreams Of Deez:  XM.  16 bit
> samples.  No sampled guitar riffs or vocals.  900 !@$!$ K!  Excellent
> sound quality.  (Unbelievable stereo panning, but that's got nothing to
> do with the filesize)  Now if this were a MIDI file, it would be about
> 9K.  Sure, on a FM synth cheapo sound card (no offence) it will sound
> like crap.  But plug that into a sound canvas, or a GUS (or SB) that has
> a MIDI out going into some high-end synth like a Korg WaveStation or
> something, and it'll simply blow your socks off.  Why?  Because they can
> afford to have HUGE samples, since they're compressed on ROM, rather than
> sitting around eating up your hard disk space.  MIDI is a lot more like
> "Here's the basic score, do what you can with it with the hardware
> available." while mods tend to have a "I want it to sound EXACTLY like
> _THIS_."  With crappy hardware, good mod routines can bludgeon decent
> sound quality out of it.  With decent hardware, mediocre mod routines can
> extract good sound quality.  With excellent hardware, no mod routine can
> do better than the "THIS" that the author said he wanted it to sound
> like.  If you have 22000 samples a second, no ammount of finageling will
> get true 44.1 kHz quality.  That's all there is to it.  With a MIDI file,
> with crappy hardware, it will sound like crap (FM synthesis) with medium
> hardware it will sound pretty good (GUS, WB, etc), and with incredible
> (in orther words, way expensive) hardware, it will sound unbelievable.
>
> > Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
> >         most songs).
>
>       Yeah.  MIDI files don't really have a limit on how many tracks
> are active.  The limitation tends to be in the hardware.  (The GUS software
> play routines can be told to cram it into 14 channels, or spread it over
> 32 channels, or anywhere between.)  In MIDI files, as many notes as you
> want can be happening on one "channel".
>
> > Any instrument you want.
>
>       Ok.  Here is a point for mods.  But 192 instruments IS a lot.
> And if you want you can probably mix them to make it sound like more.
>
> > You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
>
>       Properly?  You can compose MIDI files without a keyboard.  (I
> tried it once.  It sounded about as bad as my attempt to write a MOD.
> Either way, you still need some talent. :/ )  Some people say that the
> only to compose music is with a tracker.  Some say they need a keyboard
> interaface.  Some say they want to be able to click on a staff.  It's all
> a matter of taste.
>
> > It's nowhere near as confusing.
>
>       Neither format confuses me.  Mods are simply a different paradigm
> from MIDI.  Which is why I was so surprised to see CP supported MIDI.
>
> > It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
> >         I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
> >         equipment.
>
>       These days, a sound card is almost standard.  MIDI will play on
> any sound card I know of that has Windows drivers, with the exception of the
> Disney Sound Source.  (Which only has digitzized output.)
>
> >
> > I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> > saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
> > most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> > Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
>
>       If this is so, it is because Creative Labs or Gravis or whoever
> did not invest enoguh time or money into making their samples.  Or that
> they didn't have enough memory to hold what was needed.  Or you don't
> like the style of music that MIDI authors tend to write. :)  (In general
> MIDI lends itself towards music involving classical instruments, etc.
> Instruments with widely varying sounds, such as an electric guitar,
> rarely sound as well done.)  Compare the best classical MOD you've heard
> to the best classical MIDI file you've heard.  I think that (unless
> you're hearing FM synths (Your sb 16.  Sorry.)) the MIDI file will
> surpass the MOD.
>
>
>
See my comments about the previous reply.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 12:29 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1677] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>> In message <[e-mail]> you write:
>>
>> >Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
>> >all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
>> >got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
>> >by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
>> >why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
>> >
>> >Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
>> >        most songs).
>> >Any instrument you want.
>> >You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
>> >It's nowhere near as confusing.
>> >It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
>> >        I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
>> >        equipment.
>> >
>> >I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
>> >saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good
>as
>> >most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
>> >Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
>>
>> Oh man, you're not even serious, are you?  MOD originally was 4 channels,
>> the instrument samples were 8 bit 16 kHz.  Of course a lot has changed,
>> but 16 bit samples are still very rare (only ULT and FT2 suppor them).
>> MIDI is up to 32 channels with samples as good as it gets.  Of course if
>> you have the junkiest sound card in the universe you won't get much out
>> of MIDI, seeing that the quality is completely dependent on your hardware,
>> but with proper h/w, MIDI beats modules any day in terms of playback
>> quality.  Of course you're right that there are no limitations on the
>> variety of instruments in MOD, but also GM is only a subset of MIDI.
>> Conclusion: both MOD and MIDI have their place, MOD is more flexible,
>> less h/w dependent, but quality wise MIDI wins hands down.  And it's
>> most certainly not going to "go out of fashion".
>>
>> Jensi
>>
>>
>>
>I suppose you've got a point about both having their place, but I'm going to
>stick to MODs, because even on a naff soundcard

What is naff?

>they sound good (and mine's not that bad).

It is bad, for MIDI anyways (and for WAVE not much better, but that's a
different story).

I still have two points unanswered:

>1. MIDI quality on my soundcard (an SB-16, but I suspect it's similar on other
>s
>                is appaling. The instruments only sound vaguely like what they
>                are meant to be.

Again, this is simply because of your sound card.  MIDI is as good as your
synthesizer.  Here is a very simplified explanation:  A WAVE file is like
a CD recording.  It sounds exactly like it was recorded on almost any type
of equipment.  A MIDI file is more like a sheet of music.  It only tells
the orchestra which instruments play which note when and for how long.
Just like it doesn't make much sense to say a sheet of music sounds good
or bad it makes no sense to say a MIDI file sounds good or bad.  I can give
the same sheet of music to a professional orchestra and they'll probably
play it very well and then I take the sheet and give it to bunch of
amateurs and it'll sound anywhere from fair to horrible, depending on the
quality of the instruments and the quality of the players.  The exact same
thing holds true for MIDI.  I can give the same file to a high quality
sound module and it'll sound very good and then I give it to a SB (or
something like that) and it'll sound horrible.  But what actually sounds
horrible is not the MIDI file but the instruments and the players inside
your SB.

A MOD file is (extremely simplified) a sheet of music that also comes with
a tape that has a sample how each instrument should sound.  Therefore if
I give a MOD to my orchestras, the outcome will not depend on the quality
of their instruments anymore, but only on the experience of the players
and the conductor.  In computer terms that means that the difference
between good and bad module playback is much less in the hardware, but
in the software that interprets the instructions in the MOD and passes it
along to the instruments.  While probably similar in sound quality, a good
MODule player will correctly interpret all the commands and properly
instruct all the players, a bad one will skip over the fine print on the
sheet and therefore mess up the accuracy of his orchestra.

>Andrew J Ferrier

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 22:27 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1660] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>   As for the arguement about midi vs. mod, when you get right down to it,
> wouldn't you say that they are actually quite similiar, if not virtually
> the same?  In both cases, you have a sound module of some kind (whether it
> be internal or external) that has samples and sounds on it. Some modules

No, the crucial thing is that a standard MIDI file on a standard soundcard
                                --------                --------
(e.g. SB, SB-Pro and compats.) has whatever samples the soundcard cares to
output.

> allow you to load in new sounds and some modules don't.  A program of some
> sort simply sends messages to this device telling it how to play those
> sounds.  This is the case with both midi's and mod's.  A midi player and a
> mod player can both, for example, tell the sound device in question to
> play a sound and bend the pitch up while playing it.
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>                                    \|/
>       Joe                          - -
>                              >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
> [e-mail]            |                  use the door.
> http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 13:00 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1678] Re: MIDI? Why?

>WHoa, things are startin to get a little heated, but I still don't think
>any of your comments are not without merit.

People with a sb-16 saying that MIDI sucks ?
Buy a real soundcard, or a syntesiser for the matter.
MIDs sound infenitely better than MODs, in their own way.
But if you use fm synthesis to play them, i guess you could prefer
mods over mids.
(But there are more soundcards than those cl and gravis make).

And sincere apologies for the flame bit. Guess i should have cut that
one out. (am i saying this? ;-)

Joost.




-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 13:01 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1679] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert

> >> >
> >> >I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> >> >saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good
> >as
> >> >most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> >> >Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
> >>
>
> It is bad, for MIDI anyways (and for WAVE not much better, but that's a
> different story).
>
> I still have two points unanswered:
>
> >1. MIDI quality on my soundcard (an SB-16, but I suspect it's similar on other
> >s
> >                is appaling. The instruments only sound vaguely like what they
> >                are meant to be.
>

The way I see it, MIDI was never meant for the Personal Computer.  MIDI
stands for Musical Instruments Digital Interface.  Where's the Musical
instrument?  After playing with a true MIDI Synthesizer, even my GUS MAX
diminishes is stature.  Just as the .mod format would never work for a
guitar, keyboard, or EWI (electronic wind instrument), MIDI never did
work with the personal computer.  It's convenient when the CPU has better
things to do than audio mixing, like if you are playing DOOM, but for
music, you might as well buy yourself a KORG O1/W or something of the
like, because I have yet to see a PC soundcard who's MIDI even comes
close to comparing to a professional MIDI guitar, keyboard, or EWI.

[e-mail]
"Don't drink and derive"


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 22:28 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1661] Re: GUS vs SB

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950302154140.11230B-100000@earth> [e-mail] writes:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> [Sound card tally]
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > First of all, the votes collected so far are nowhere near statistically valid.
> > I suggest we discuss who this survey is meant to be for i.e.
> >
> > All sound card owners?
> > People who play MODs?
> > People who use IPlay?
> > Or What?.....
> >
> > Perhaps we could enlist the help of other newsgroups/mail lists etc. ?
>
> Andrew, it appears that you just recently joined this list. To fill
> you in, this survey was intended to find out GUS vs. SB compatible
> statistics for the members of this list. It is not intended as a survey
> of the known universe for a Ph.D. thesis.
>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================
Perhaps I am taking it a bit seriously. Still, I am taking my Maths GCSE
(a standard qualification in Britain) at the moment and perhaps I was thinking
about this to much! :-). And you were right, I joined the list after the
tally had begun.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 13:22 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1680] Re: GUS vs SB

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>> People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?
>
>No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
>who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
>going to get GUSes.

I'd rather suggest the opposite.  Besides, what's your point?  The question
was for which group of people this survey was representative and I said
for those that read INERTIA-TALK.  Why is this wrong and what does it have
to do with the amount of money someone has to spend on sound cards.  First
of all, only people who subscribe to this list KNOW about this survey, so
to determine how representative it is you would have to research how likely
a reader of this list and owner of a particular sound card is to respond.
That's all.

>--
>Andrew J Ferrier

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 13:34 EET
From: [e-mail] (Neil Gardner)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1681] Re: MIDI? Why?

>> ones that sounds oh-so nice.  (Example:  Dreams Of Deez:  XM.  16 bit
>> samples.  No sampled guitar riffs or vocals.  900 !@$!$ K!  Excellent
>> sound quality.  (Unbelievable stereo panning, but that's got nothing to
>> do with the filesize)  Now if this were a MIDI file, it would be about
>> 9K.  Sure, on a FM synth cheapo sound card (no offence) it will sound

[tons deleted]

Um, could someone tell me where to find Dreems of Deez. I have looked on
hornet and Cdrom

TNX in advance (I'm interested in the best 16 bit mod vs Midi quality)

Jordie LaForge "Impossible!..... wait.. maybe not!"

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

no carrier



-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 14:48 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1682] Re: MIDI? Why?

>I guess when I made that last comment I wasn't really thinking. However, please
>look at my reply to the other reply (if that makes any sense!).

It does.
-excuse me for saying so- but my guess is you haven't heard a MIDI file
through a decent soundcard yet ...
Well I have and it sounded WAY better than any s3m or xm I ever heard.
(i played strike commander on my old sc)
well, as someone said earlier,  it was like the complete new london
philharmonic was standing in the room!

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 14:50 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1683] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

>Go Windows!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
who is saying this? where does he live? how much for a ticket there? what does
a decent gun cost? ;-) ;-) ;-);-) ;-) ;-)
Wow. Can't believe you really said that. You actually mean that? :)
(PS we don't all have dx2-66+ with 8 mb+)

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 14:51 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1684] Re: Iplay 1.21

>I recently stumbled across the 1.21 version of everyone's favorite mod
>player, Iplay. but anyway, I recall hearing about the Isetup.exe or
>whatever it is called, was infected with a virus (tpian or something like
>that). What i am inquiring about is, what should the size of the exe be
>(uninfected)?  I just used my trustly (yet blind) MSAV to test it, but it
>came across clean (go figure).  I am going to try some of the newer
>anti-virus progs ...MAcFree, Fprot, ect.  But once again, what should the
>exe size be?  Thanx for your undivided attention.

Volume in drive d is bbs
Volume serial number is 3263-0CE6
Directory of d:\ff

               <dir>                  03-05-95   12:19p
.              <dir>                  03-05-95   12:19p
isetup  .exe           7,677  12-20-94     1:21a
iplay    .exe       131,894  12-20-94     1:21a
ipdoc  .exe         34,248  12-20-94     1:21a

This is the virus-free version.

Regards,

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 16:12 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1685] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

Yeah,
    That sounds great.  Where can I get the program to save/load WAVs
and RAW from MODs?

_____________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
                 "Live Long and Render"


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 16:30 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1686] FastTracker 2, UltraTracker

Hi,
    Thanks for your response earlier, but where can I get these two?
Thanks.

_____________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
                 "Live Long and Render"


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 18:18 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1687] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:37 EET, "Jimmy Wan" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> > > and: the fact that it only uses 16 channels.  I think PlayMidi defaults
> > > to 22. :)
> > Ah...so that's why. Oh well, v1.x might be much better. :)
> Speaking of PLAYMIDI, does anyone know how to get it to play on another
> sound card?  I've got a turtle beach maui, and I would love to have it
> play under DOS.
Well, try using the -mpu parameter. It will play through a MPU-401 card,
which I believe the MAUI has.

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 18:44 EET
From: [e-mail] (Prof. Dr. A. De Leenheer)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1688] Location of Inertia

Hi.
        I just wanted to ask where I can find the newest version of Inertia.
I also heard that the Inertia MOD-editor should be available now (somebody
told me this, so I am not sure).

Thanks

[e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:02 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1689] MCI Player for Win - Midas - Excellent!

I have just downloaded the Midas Module Player (an MCI driver for Win)
It is excellent and I highly recommend it. Ver 1.03 Beta available from:

hornet.eng.ufl.edu
/demos/music/programs/misc
wmidas13.zip - apx. 50k

For all you lucky people with GUSes, it apparently runs with 0% CPU usage.
Otherwise it uses a Win Wave Driver. It can be used under Media Player,
VB, or any other MCI-compliant app.

Andrew Ferrier


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:10 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1691] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > As I understand it, this list is a forum for fans and users of Iplay to
> > chat about Iplay and digital music and whatever other subjects interest
> > them including but not limited to mod and midi formats. BTW, Iplay has the
> > capability to play midis. So does the new Cubic Player.
>
> I'm not calling you a liar, but are you sure IPlay can play MIDI?

Well it's supposed to anyway.

> > > ........................Let's face it, if you've
> > > got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better.
> >
> > Not true.
>
> By decent quality I meant a good Wave playing back chip, as opposed to a
> high-end MIDI soundcard (Roland, Gus etc.)

A GUS is by no means a high-end MIDI soundcard.

> > > .....................................I was appalled
> > > by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16).
> >
> > A plain SB-16 playing midi is about two steps above a pc speaker. It is
> > NOT the card to judge midis. Go grab the new Cubic Player and a set of
> > GUS patches and you will have quasi-wavetable midi playback.
>
> Yes, but if my SB-16 can do decent quality sound in native mode, and playing
> MODs, why can't the inbuilt MIDI Player (and I suspect the situation is similar
> in other cards) play with this quality?.

What the hell is this supposed to mean?  Why can't the inbuilt MIDI
player play with this quality?  What are you talking about?  How can you
compare an OPL3 with a Wave Device.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:08 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1690] Re: GUS vs SB

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?
>
> No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
> who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
> going to get GUSes.

How is it not obvious that the poll was for people who read
Inertia-Talk?  Obviously we are the only ones who read this mailing list
and are obviously the only ones who even know about the poll.  And since
when did having money have anything to do with GUSes or the demo scene?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:17 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1693] Re: GUS vs SB

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:59 EET,
> Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Uhh, I think the whole point here is that the survey is for MOD players
> >in general.  That's why it's on this mailing list.  Since we obviously
> >aren't solely concentrating on IPLAY?  But I'm sure you could've figured
> >that out all by yourself.
>
> Does the author of Inertia Player even READ this list?  It dosen't seem to
> which seems kind of strange.

I think he occasionally frequents it, but I don't know for sure.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:16 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1692] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950304110423.13903B-100000@[141.211.7.161]> [e-mail] writes:
> > On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
> >
> > > Why doesn't someone write an MCI MOD Player for Windows. Full Stop. No playing
> > > around with converting to MIDI. That way you can use any interface (including
> > > the brilliant Media Player) you like to play them.
> >
> > Uhh, that's what it is.
> >
> That's NOT what it is. Media Player uses MCI drivers for various different types
> of media e.g.
>
> CD Audio
> Video for Windows
> MIDI Sequencer etc.
>
> I was proposing a MOD driver for Media Player (i.e. an MCI driver). I have
> since found one (from this list):

What program do you think we are talking about?  We are talking about the
Midas Module Player which is that file.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:27 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1696] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> 1. MIDI quality on my soundcard (an SB-16, but I suspect it's similar on others
>                 is appaling. The instruments only sound vaguely like what they
>                 are meant to be.

No matter what you do to a Hyundai it is still a Hyundai.  No magic is
going to make the SB16 great at playing MIDI's until you throw new
hardware at it.

> 2. Why are we talking about MIDI? Isn't this meant to be a MOD-list?

There's always a little room for comparison.  Wave-table MIDI operates on
a very similar principle to Module playback.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:36 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1699] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> The way I see it, MIDI was never meant for the Personal Computer.  MIDI
> stands for Musical Instruments Digital Interface.  Where's the Musical
> instrument?  After playing with a true MIDI Synthesizer, even my GUS MAX
> diminishes is stature.  Just as the .mod format would never work for a
> guitar, keyboard, or EWI (electronic wind instrument), MIDI never did
> work with the personal computer.  It's convenient when the CPU has better
> things to do than audio mixing, like if you are playing DOOM, but for
> music, you might as well buy yourself a KORG O1/W or something of the
> like, because I have yet to see a PC soundcard who's MIDI even comes
> close to comparing to a professional MIDI guitar, keyboard, or EWI.

What's a KORG 01/W, and how much does it cost?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:29 EET
From: Thomas Axelsson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1697] SB vs. GUS

I found a text-file about the AWE.. Read it if you want to.

------  Cut -----

WARNING TO ALL PEOPLE WHO THINK THE SOUNDBLASTER AWE 32 IS A GOOD SOUNDCARD!!

This documentation is made with the help of people who previously owned an
AWE 32, a MIDI conference, and pure, hard demonstrations of the soundcard in
local shops. So it isn't just bullshit! 100% of this is REALLY TRUE!!

If we take an advert from Creative Labs we see a really big slab of Silicon,
covered with all kinds of neat things like chips and hungry SIMM banks. I
must admit that at first i really thought that Creative Labs finally found out
that their ASP16 technology was completely overlooked and inferior compared to
the Gravis Ultrasound. But nooo....this actually is the 'great' answer for the
big wave of Wavetable soundcards.

We'll take a look at the advert first :

- 16 Bit CD-quality stereo recording/playback
    Record and playback from 5kHz to 44.1kHz stereo
    Real-time hardware compression/decompression of sound files

- Orchestral 32-voice polyphony with Advanced WavEffects Synthesis
    16 Channels, 128 instruments, 32-voice polyphony (GM compatible)
    6 drum kits (GM compatible)

- Programmable AWE32 Effects Engine for Reverb and Chorus or Q-sound

- Programmable Advanced Signal Processor

- Soundfont support via downloadable sound samples
- 4 Mbit RAM onboard, upgradeable to a Maximum of 28 Mbytes
- 20 Voice OPL3 FM music Synthesiser
- Multi CD-ROM interface using Creative, Sony and Mitsumi drives
- Creative VoiceAssist, Speech Recognition system
- Creative TextAssist, Text-To-Speech system
- Soundblaster 16, General MIDI, MPC2, Windows 3.1 compatible

Looks promising? Sure...but here we go :


- 16 Bit CD-quality stereo recording/playback

My ass! CD qualtiy is 16 bit 44.1kHz Stereo, and the AWE32 may sample sound
on this frequency, it most certainly doesn't play it on this range! The out-
put showed a fallback around 18kHz and dropped around 20kHz. The card's
range was estimated around 21kHz easy. And sorry if I say so, but when they
say CD quality, the AWE32 has background noise like a lousy cassette deck,
and then I mean the analog type!

- Orchestral 32-voice polyphony with Advanced WavEffects Synthesis

In other words : 16 channels. This is another clue to the final conclusion
about the internal going-ons of the AWE32. All the Midi crap is standard,
just not worth explaining because it's the same like the SB16 Waveblaster
without the E-mu sound patches. Advanced Wav Effects Synthesis means support
of Chorus and Reverb or Q-sound. Which make up a LOT for the crappy Midi
output. Note that this is MIDI only.

Sounds sampled for MIDI output will go directly through the FM Synthesiser
before going through the MIDI Chip. This ensures maximum background hum and
noise. There's hardly something WaveTable about your own samples.

In order to make the AWE32 a better card, you can add the good old WaveBlaster
on this SB16 as well, giving it the double of the AWE32's abilities : enabling
64 channels polyphony = 32 channels.....smart, but nothing refreshing, not to
mention a price tag. Note that this is MIDI only.

- Programmable AWE32 Effects Engine for Reverb and Chorus or Q-sound

That's the Advanced WavEffects Synthesis thing. You get to program it your-
self. Wow, Creative Labs lets the consumer have a say in it!!

It turned out that without the Chorus and Reverb, MIDI sounds more miserable.
And Q-sound (180 degrees) can't match the Holographic 3D-Sound from Focal Point
(360 degrees immersive) in any way : it only works when you sit tight, the
sample must be pre-programmed for Q-sound and still it's a really diss-
apointing way to emulate suround.

- Programmable Advanced Signal Processor

This is the thing that made the SB16 better, and tries to do some good on
the AWE32, with no avail. The compression/decompression chip is a very handy
thing if you consider the AWE32 takes about 30% CPU time. However, it doesn't
do squat to the quality of the card.

- Soundfont support via downloadable sound samples

Hey, this is so new! (Well compared to their technoligy from 5 years back :
SoundFont is another name for support to insert more Midi samples, this is
a very common household item on Gravis Ultrasound Cards : Ultrasound Patch
files are openly availible since 1992)

- 4 Mbit RAM onboard, upgradeable to a Maximum of 28 Mbytes

4Mbit (some salesmen are keen on saying Mbite (he hopes you'll think it's Mbyte
that escapes his lips)) is 512Kb.....still a reasonable amount of memory for
such a stupid card. On the other hand, Creative Labs made a samrt move and made
SIMM banks : easy to get by, and in large amounts too. You can dump two 16Mbyte
SIMMS....and leave it to the card to waste 4Mbyte of it as a additional buffer
for the compressed 1Mb ROM full of samples!

All the WaveTable sounds are stored in one 1Mb ROM. The compression is no
big merit for the sound quality.

- 20 Voice OPL3 FM music Synthesiser

Can you remember the old days : Adlib tunes, noisy output, too much feedback
from other hardware devices? Well....sit back and enjoy yesterday's tech once
more!! Creative Labs managed to use the OPL3 again. When will they learn?
You get exactly two (yes, just two) digital audio channels for your disposal.
Is it a bit dissapointing if you look at a Gravis Ultrasound, a card with just
32 digital audio channels?

A strange thing in the advert : "OPL3 FM Synthesiser to give backward
compatibility!" This is not true :

  The OPL3 is not just built in for the compatiblity, the whole card's
  output is spoiled by the ever active OPL3 FM Synthesiser. If you put
  the volume on a normal level, you can enjoy the hum caused by the card
  itself, but also your Hard Disk, Processor etc...

  more evidence about the OPL3 being the heart of the AWE32 shows up in
  the very beginning :

  When you've installed the software you get two directories, one of them is
  SB16, the other WAVEBL (?). In fact, the AWE is nothing but an upgraded
  Soundblaster ASP 16 / WaveBlaster combination with a RAM Bank.

  Even if they inserted the OPL3 for compatibility, they could as well used
  the new OPL4 (it's fully OPL3 compatible) which is a Wavetable Synthesis
  Chip.

  Slight hint : the SoundBlasters have a strange urge to be lacking full
  and real 16bit sampling capacities (This seemed to be OPL3 faulty) the
  first 8 bits are more or less the real sound, the other 8 are just random
  and blindly added bits. If you sample something in 8 and in 16 bit, you are
  likely unable to hear a difference!

Backward compatibility? The whole card is backward if what they say is right.


- Multi CD-ROM interface using Creative, Sony and Mitsumi drives

Confused people : Creative is not a CD-ROM standard (they wish!), this is a
stripped down version of the Panasonic/Matsushita CD-ROM drives. It used to
be CR-562x, but we haven't tested it on being a bunch better. (We might be
wrong on the Drive type)

- Creative VoiceAssist, Speech Recognition system

BlahBlahBlah...Cute program from the SB16Basic/ASP cards gone professional..
(And it's Windows too....)

- Creative TextAssist, Text-To-Speech system

BlahBlahBlah...Cute program from the SB16Basic/ASP cards gone professional..
(And it's Windows too....)

- Soundblaster 16, General MIDI, MPC2, Windows 3.1 compatible

No shit?! It's SB16 compatible?!?! IT IS A SB16 YOU FOOLS!! YOU SAID IT IN
YOUR OWN F---ING ADVERT, MORONS!! Besides, who wouldn't make it's own card
compatible with the older standards?! And all other specs were expected.


OVERALL

- The quality of the card is plain miserable. Most MIDI sounds are just
  horrible, or they are 8 megabyte big. Okay, so you sampled each note, but
  the output is as horrible as the default MIDI samples. Chorus and Reverb
  try to filter most of the "hey, it sounds as if it's recorded through a tin
  can" quality out of it, but then the output just won't make something out of
  it. Take away the Chorus/Reverb and you'll become so sorry that you bought
  this card in the first place.

HOW IS IT RUNNING?

- Some shops already stopped selling the AWE32. When we asked why they said :
  (quote) "We stopped selling this soundcard because we didn't want to rip our
  customers off. The card sounded miserable"
  Some didn't. When we asked why they said : (quote) "The customers buy it. We
  don't care if it's a bad soundcard, if they buy it, we'll sell it!"

  This just shows why shops sell them. Most hardcore SB users just won't give
  up, and keep buying Soundblasters. People with no real knowledge of PCs never
  heard of another card. We even had to explain that the add-on that gives you
  digital sound on a PC wasn't called a SoundBlaster, but a Soundcard.
  We had this conversation :

     A : "You have a PC? Gee..do you have a Soundblaster too?"

     B : "No, I have a Gravis Ultrasound."

     A : "....."

     B : "It makes music...you understand?"

     A : "Yeah...just like I said, you have a Soundblaster"

     B : "<Sigh> No that's a type of soundcard, I have another type!"

     A : "Aren't those things called soundblasters then?"

     B : "No, they're called sound cards....(Jeez!)"


That's why so many people still buy Soundblaster crap.


- We were forced to watch a demonstration of the AWE32 in progress (the
  salesmen were convinced we wanted one....why would we?) and we saw a
  lot of lacks. Sure, the demonstration Midi was impressive but the sound
  output was extremely sad....Soundblaster background noise made it a lot
  worse : the digital sound itself just sucked. We were totally back in the
  SB16 corner : a lot of money for a hand-full-of-crap-quality. Then we had
  to explain what a GUS was. ("You have a WHAT?") Not soon after they were
  selling GUS MAX as well. (We think it's just coincidence)

- Some friend bought this card, and sold it after five days in favor of a
  GUS MAX. Complaints : Midi is sluggish and the card doesn't fully do as
  promised. When they are sliming about the quality, they lie as hell.

- Even our close family wasn't safe from the AWE 32 infection :
  He wanted to make music on his PC, and hopped by at the local store.
  Those cheap rats didn't want him to buy the ASP16, but the relativly more
  expensive AWE32. Yes, he was persuaded by the MIDI file you get with the
  free (misleading) demonstration, compared to a cranky MOD file on an ASP16.
  (*Back home he noted that both cards do the same thing to such a music file*)
  Happy as hell he followed the instructions of his handbook, and plugged the
  CD-ROM audio cable in, while the amplifier was on maximum power. (PC was
  turned off, in case you wonder)

  Now a really strange thing happened. This is not a made up story, this REALLY
  happened :

  Apparently the AWE 32 couldn't handle things, and blew his internal amplifier
  to pieces. Is this the super-sound card they yell about in the adverts? Yep.
  Creative Labs were so kind to promise him a new card. Great. First let a kid
  blow it's feet off, and then give him a new shotgun.

  (* Sidestep note : he was completely amazed by the quality of a simple,
     un-MAXed GUS.....and they sell these for 1/3 of the AWE 32's price!!)

  We think the AWE32 is for idiots. This card belongs at the office, where
  idiots make their copy of Windows 3.1 talk, and play games from 1989 or
  earlier. DON'T BUY THIS CARD, IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE, NEEDS UPGRADING TO MAKE
  IT SLIGHTLY LESS WORSE, AND SHOULD BE SEEN AS A NEW SCAM FROM CREATIVE LABS
  TO SELL THEIR OLD SB16 CHIPSETS!!!

  THEY STILL CAN MAKE MONEY OUT OF THE OLD TECHNOLOGY, SO THEY WON'T COME WITH
  THE BETTER TECH.!!! LAME!!

  Sooooo.....still eager to buy a card called AWE32? Remember that these
  statements are true, we have had enough opportunities to analyse the card,
  and have seen the card fail the owners' expectations. Don't fall for it.....

You can always call us if you are in doubt, you know where to find TKB, don't
you? ([phone] / 28k8 and e-mail : [e-mail])


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:53 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1705] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> No, the crucial thing is that a standard MIDI file on a standard soundcard
>                                 --------                --------
> (e.g. SB, SB-Pro and compats.) has whatever samples the soundcard cares to
> output.

Are you really that ignorant?  What makes you think any member of the SB
family, is by any means a standard MIDI card?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:52 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1704] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> Applaud your friend!  Everybody I know who has a Gravis, is quite
> impressed with it.  I have a Gravis Ultrasound Max and I love it.  There
> are a few things about the MAX that, I believe, makes it a much better
> buy than the AWE32: 3D Holographic Sound, GF1 mixing chip (amatuer
> programmers love this), free developement kits (also a boon for
> programmers, thus making amateur programs, like demos and mod players
> easier to get), and it costs over a hundred dollars less.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the AWE-32 comes with the ASP chip
allowing you to get Q-Sound effects which are similar to the 3D holographic
sound on the GUS Max?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 09:38 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1671] Re: GUS vs SB

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?
>
> No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
> who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
> going to get GUSes.

    People who are into demos traditionally have very little money.
That's the appeal of the GUS; it's a high quality sound card, with a
small price tag.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 22:02 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1708] Re: FastTracker 2, UltraTracker


On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, DAVE MCCARTER wrote:

> Hi,
>     Thanks for your response earlier, but where can I get these two?
> Thanks.

    ftp.eng.ufl.edu /pub/msdos/demos/music/programs/something


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:38 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1700] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Joost Baaij wrote:

> >Go Windows!
>
> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> who is saying this? where does he live? how much for a ticket there? what does
> a decent gun cost? ;-) ;-) ;-);-) ;-) ;-)
> Wow. Can't believe you really said that. You actually mean that? :)
> (PS we don't all have dx2-66+ with 8 mb+)

Jensi, I have to say Go Windows! was not necessary.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:26 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1695] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >Speaking of PLAYMIDI, does anyone know how to get it to play on another
> >sound card?  I've got a turtle beach maui, and I would love to have it
> >play under DOS.
>
> My friend, the GUS and the Maui employ totally different hardware to achieve
> MIDI playback.  DOS doesn't have a driver concept and is completely
> hardware dependent.  Every DOS application must support whatever hardware
> it is intended to run on directly.  Therefore, an application written for
> the GUS doesn't have the slightest chance to do anything useful with the
> Maui or any other soundcard for that matter.

I had no idea that PLAYMIDI was a program to play MIDI's on the GUS.  I
was assuming that it played MIDI's through any General MIDI device.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:45 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1702] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)


On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Ng Cheng Kiang wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 23 Feb 95 04:39 EET, "Cuthalion / Sliced Bread" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > > > IMHO, even on a GUS, they (the MIDIs) don't sound quite as good as compared
> > > > to them being played on PLAYMIDI or Windoze players. Wonder why. I do agree
> > >     I would assume that this is due to: Flakinesses in the loader,
> > > and: the fact that it only uses 16 channels.  I think PlayMidi defaults
> > > to 22. :)
> > Ah...so that's why. Oh well, v1.x might be much better. :)
>
> Speaking of PLAYMIDI, does anyone know how to get it to play on another
> sound card?  I've got a turtle beach maui, and I would love to have it
> play under DOS.

    If it's got a MPU-401, playmidi -mpu  should do the trick..


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:51 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1703] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID



/***************************************************************
*** Jesse Morris *** [e-mail] *** [e-mail] ***
***************** Cuthalion / Sliced Bread  *******************/

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>
> MEGAEM and ULTRAMID are two of the emulations the Gravis comes with that
> allows the GUS to use Soundblaster, Roland Sound Canvas, General Midi,
> and a few other different sound card's codes.  That way, if a games you
> have  doesn't support Gravis Ultrasound (and many don't) all you have to
> do is run MEGAEM and/or EMUSET or ULTRAMID, and set your game up for,
> say, a Roland Soud Canvas.

    Not true.  UltraMid is not an emulation TSR.  It is a TSR that
allows software to interface the GUS without having to know anything
about the hardware.  I think it is basically a midi player that gets told
"Start palying THIS midi."  The software must support UltraMid for it to
be used.  (It is often used in conjunction with tolder versions of AIL or
miles drivers.)


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:39 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1701] Re: Location of Inertia

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Prof. Dr. A. De Leenheer wrote:

>         I just wanted to ask where I can find the newest version of Inertia.
> I also heard that the Inertia MOD-editor should be available now (somebody
> told me this, so I am not sure).

The editor is not yet available.  BTW, Prof. Dr.?  Isn't that a little
unnecessary?


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:55 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1707] Re: [NERTIA-TALK:1657] Re: GUS vs SB

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> -> No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e.
> -> people who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are
> -> therefore going to get GUSes.
> -> --
> -> Andrew J Ferrier
>
> Excuse me!?!?!? I have *NO* money yet I follow the demo scene as far as it
> goes, and the point of me having an SB16 is only because I can get the Roland
> add on...  And you just contradicted a major point to the Gus' Defense...  The
> reason people buy the GUS is to get good quality out of DEMOS and TRAKKER
> modules...  Some buy it for the MIDI capability, If you want it for games,
> that's another story...  The GUS is a very cheap card pricewise, and sounds
> decent for the price...  But hey, you just defeated that so.....
>
> Zach
>
Sorry if I insulted you, although I meant in general. I also have little money
to spend. What do you mean by the Roland add-on for the SB-16?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 22:33 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1712] Re: MIDI? Why?



On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Neil Gardner wrote:

> >> ones that sounds oh-so nice.  (Example:  Dreams Of Deez:  XM.  16 bit
> >> samples.  No sampled guitar riffs or vocals.  900 !@$!$ K!  Excellent
> >> sound quality.  (Unbelievable stereo panning, but that's got nothing to
> >> do with the filesize)  Now if this were a MIDI file, it would be about
> >> 9K.  Sure, on a FM synth cheapo sound card (no offence) it will sound
>

    Actually, it seems that a lot of it is only 8 bit.  Of course I
didn't look at all of the samples, but some of them were indeed 8 bit.

> [tons deleted]
>
> Um, could someone tell me where to find Dreems of Deez. I have looked on
> hornet and Cdrom

    It used to be on hornet.  I don't know where it is now..  Try
some hornet mirrors.  (uwp?)


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 22:23 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1709] PMP?

Umm, who sent me PMP?  I forgot what your e-mail address was and I would
like to send you the program you requested.  Please respond via direct
e-mail.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 22:30 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1710] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
> 1.  On your SB-16 you probably have an OPL-3 which is a FM chip.  All midi
>       stuff goes through that.  the OPL-3 is just slighly above the
>       adlib's chip.  See my point?
> 2.  Well, there are two sides to music on a PC, MIDI and MOD.  To just discuss
>       one seems narrow minded.  In the future there will become no two
>       separate formats.  MIDI and MODS will have merged.  You can see it
>       happening today, i.e. Building your own samples.  MIDI, or real midi
>       like that found on the sound canvas and such use digitized instruments
>       to make the music,  Sound familiar?  MIDI's are bassically just like
>       MODS - except that we have really decent hardware built for them.
>       With the advent of the GUS and Turtle Beach boards we now have MOD
>       hardware.  In the end, it is all really the same.  Except on your
>       SB-16 where it treats the MIDI files to your lovely FM chip.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
>                  "Live Long and Render"
>
Everyone's making me feel really inferior with just an SB-16! Anyone out there
with an AdLib or something for me to have a good laugh at? (grin)
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 22:31 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1711] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Applaud your friend!  Everybody I know who has a Gravis, is quite
> impressed with it.  I have a Gravis Ultrasound Max and I love it.  There
> are a few things about the MAX that, I believe, makes it a much better
> buy than the AWE32: 3D Holographic Sound, GF1 mixing chip (amatuer
> programmers love this), free developement kits (also a boon for
> programmers, thus making amateur programs, like demos and mod players
> easier to get), and it costs over a hundred dollars less.

AWE32 has QSound - a holographic 3D sound effect. Also, I don't know about
elsewhere, but here in the UK the GUS MAX and AWE-32 are about the same
price.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 00:18 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1714] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Cuthalion / Sliced Bread wrote:

> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:51 EET
> From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1703] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID
>
>
>
> /***************************************************************
> *** Jesse Morris *** [e-mail] *** [e-mail] ***
> ***************** Cuthalion / Sliced Bread  *******************/
>
> On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
> >
> > MEGAEM and ULTRAMID are two of the emulations the Gravis comes with that
> > allows the GUS to use Soundblaster, Roland Sound Canvas, General Midi,
> > and a few other different sound card's codes.  That way, if a games you
> > have  doesn't support Gravis Ultrasound (and many don't) all you have to
> > do is run MEGAEM and/or EMUSET or ULTRAMID, and set your game up for,
> > say, a Roland Soud Canvas.
>
>     Not true.  UltraMid is not an emulation TSR.  It is a TSR that
> allows software to interface the GUS without having to know anything
> about the hardware.  I think it is basically a midi player that gets told
> "Start palying THIS midi."  The software must support UltraMid for it to
> be used.  (It is often used in conjunction with tolder versions of AIL or
> miles drivers.)
>
>
Thanks for clearing that up.  I've never used Ultramid on my MAX before.

[e-mail]
"Don't Drink and Derive"


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 00:07 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1713] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:36 EET
> From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1699] Re: MIDI? Why?
>
> On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > The way I see it, MIDI was never meant for the Personal Computer.  MIDI
> > stands for Musical Instruments Digital Interface.  Where's the Musical
> > instrument?  After playing with a true MIDI Synthesizer, even my GUS MAX
> > diminishes is stature.  Just as the .mod format would never work for a
> > guitar, keyboard, or EWI (electronic wind instrument), MIDI never did
> > work with the personal computer.  It's convenient when the CPU has better
> > things to do than audio mixing, like if you are playing DOOM, but for
> > music, you might as well buy yourself a KORG O1/W or something of the
> > like, because I have yet to see a PC soundcard who's MIDI even comes
> > close to comparing to a professional MIDI guitar, keyboard, or EWI.
>
> What's a KORG 01/W, and how much does it cost?
>
>
a KORG 01/W is just an example of a high-end MIDI synthesizer.  A few
years ago it costed about $1800.00 Canadian.  I used It to write a song
when I was in grade 11 as part of a course I took, and it was really
impressive.  There is, however, probably musch better ones out now.


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 00:31 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1717] Re: SB vs. GUS

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Axelsson wrote:

> I found a text-file about the AWE.. Read it if you want to.
>
> ------  Cut -----
>
> WARNING TO ALL PEOPLE WHO THINK THE SOUNDBLASTER AWE 32 IS A GOOD SOUNDCARD!!
>
> This documentation is made with the help of people who previously owned an
> AWE 32, a MIDI conference, and pure, hard demonstrations of the soundcard in
> local shops. So it isn't just bullshit! 100% of this is REALLY TRUE!!
>
[Cut]

The last word on the writers of this "warning" is that they are slowly
improving. They are no longer under a 24 hour watch and are recovering
nicely in the psychiatric ward at the hospital. Their Prozac dosages have
been reduced to a maintainance level and with luck they should start
receiving visits from friends and loved ones.

It seems that their obsession with their favorite sound card had caused
them to become severely obsessed and somewhat paranoid. This had the
unfortunate effect of causing them to have wild delusions and incoherant
and unobjective behavior. We tried to stop them from exposing their sad
illness to the whole world but before we could stop them, they had posted
this message to a small ftp site in Wales where it was picked up and
spread by innocents who do not know how sick those foks are. Please pray
for their speedy recovery and if you would like to contribute their get
well fund, please call the phone number below or email your charge card
number along with the amount that you wish to donate.

>  ([phone] / 28k8 and e-mail : [e-mail])

Thank you for your understanding and support in this difficult time.

Sincerely,

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 00:24 EET
From: Bushy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1715] Sound Blaster dead


Do any of you guru's out there have any idea why my Sound Blaster v2.0
died on Saturday?

I realise that this is way off topic, but I just thought that it might
also be a bit different than from reading GUS vs SB all the time.

I was using FT2 to sample straight from an FM radio station (dont ask
why...). Turned it off, and next time I booted me machine (386'sx), the
amplifier on the board is dead.

Using 2500% Amplification on Inertia nearly gives the normal sound output,
since I have 12" speakers connected to the SB.

..and dont tell me to turn up my volume. Because the power transistor on
the board is cactus. I just wanna know why it died.


(sorry again from being off topic about GUSvsSB in "Inertia-talk".)

Bushy '95.
--
-----Ever-wondered-where-bridge-toll-collectors-go-for-their-toilet-break?----

                    Bushy '95. [e-mail]

                      Real programmers use DEBUG.




-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 00:25 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1716] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 21:52 EET
> From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1704] Re: MEGAEM & ULTRAMID
>
> On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > Applaud your friend!  Everybody I know who has a Gravis, is quite
> > impressed with it.  I have a Gravis Ultrasound Max and I love it.  There
> > are a few things about the MAX that, I believe, makes it a much better
> > buy than the AWE32: 3D Holographic Sound, GF1 mixing chip (amatuer
> > programmers love this), free developement kits (also a boon for
> > programmers, thus making amateur programs, like demos and mod players
> > easier to get), and it costs over a hundred dollars less.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the AWE-32 comes with the ASP chip
> allowing you to get Q-Sound effects which are similar to the 3D holographic
> sound on the GUS Max?
>
>
I just asked a friend who has a !@#$ AWE32.  He says Q-sound is used by a
lot a different technologies, ie. in the Arcade, and the ASP does support it.
There's also software techniques to get this surround sound, ie. DMP.  He
hasn't seen much for support for this Q-sound, however, so all I can say
is that it exists.

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 01:12 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1719] Re: Sound Blaster dead

On Mon, 6 Mar 1995, Bushy wrote:

>
> Do any of you guru's out there have any idea why my Sound Blaster v2.0
> died on Saturday?
>
> I realise that this is way off topic, but I just thought that it might
> also be a bit different than from reading GUS vs SB all the time.
>
> I was using FT2 to sample straight from an FM radio station (dont ask
> why...). Turned it off, and next time I booted me machine (386'sx), the
> amplifier on the board is dead.

Two possibbilities come to mind:

1. Sheer coincidence.

2. Your FM receiver has a "dirty" output. Some of the less expensive
receivers do not filter the 19kHz stereo pilot and 38kHz stereo
subcarrier. These frequencies may be different down under but will be
close enough. What this means is that your poor SB was trying to pump
supersonics into a reactive load (Your speakers). Power transistors are
much less efficient at higher frequncies. This causes overheating and
rapid destruction.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 01:01 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1718] Re: [NERTIA-TALK:1657] Re: GUS vs SB

On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Sorry if I insulted you, although I meant in general. I also have little money
> to spend. What do you mean by the Roland add-on for the SB-16?

If you have a SB-16 with the Wave Blaster connector you can plug onto it a
wavetable daughter board. Many companies have jumped on the original Wave
Blaster bandwagon and make these add-ons. AFAIK the following daughter
boards are available for the SB-16 and clones with the WB connector:

Ensoniq --------- $100
TB Rio ---------- $120
Roland SCD-10 --- $125
MV Korg --------- $140
CL Wave Blaster - $180
Roland SCD-15 --- $210

These prices are approximate in U.S. Dollars.

What these boards give you is instant hardware general midi compatibility
in DOS and Windows. No TSRs. And even the least expensive Ensoniq is said
to really rock. So when you configure your favorite game (Doom in my case)
you simply select "General midi" for your music card, SB-16 for your FX
card (now you know why they have two seperate selections) and you have
instant JHGS (Jaw Hitting Ground Syndrome).

This WB connector does not exist on the SB-16 Value Edition. If that's
what you have, well, better luck next time.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


> --
> Andrew J Ferrier
>
> Contact Me At:
> ==============
>
> 32 Wharfenden Way,
> Frimley Green,
> Camberley,
> Surrey,
> GU16 6PJ.
> ENGLAND
> Tel: [phone]
> Email: [e-mail]
>
>


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 01:35 EET
From: Bushy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1720] Re: Sound Blaster dead


Hussam Eassa says >
> supersonics into a reactive load (Your speakers). Power transistors are
> much less efficient at higher frequncies. This causes overheating and
> rapid destruction.

<sigh>. Thankyou, that explains it very well. Time for the soldering iron,
and multimeter.

..or a new GUS.

Bushy.



-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 05:54 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1723] Re: GUS...

On Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:47 EET,
Jens Puchert  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>True.  We can't have SB compatible sound cards forever.  I mean, heck,
>eventually someone's gotta realize the implications and make something
>better.

You could take a good step by adding GF1 and AWE32 support to your product
and not treating every card like a Sound Blaster or compatible.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 05:52 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1721] Re: GUS vs SB

On Sat, 4 Mar 95 21:44 EET,
Andrew Ferrier  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
>who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
>going to get GUSes.

It's not like the GUS costs much more than the SB16 which is the #2 card
behind GUS on the survey.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 05:53 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1722] Re: Midas

On Sun, 5 Mar 95 02:31 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> Yes, M4W has no GUS support while Midas does.  GUS users will want to
>> switch over.
>Or convince our friend Jensi to add GUS support. I'd prefer that because I
>like the interface, the accuracy and the file management that M4W offers.

I've asked Jensi to add GUS support but I guess he dosen't care, I'm happy
with Midas, if MOD4WIN eventually supports the GUS I may or may not switch
back.  I prefer to do my file management from DOS.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 06:42 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1724] Re: Midas

On Mon, 6 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Mar 95 02:31 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> Yes, M4W has no GUS support while Midas does.  GUS users will want to
> >> switch over.
> >Or convince our friend Jensi to add GUS support. I'd prefer that because I
> >like the interface, the accuracy and the file management that M4W offers.
>
> I've asked Jensi to add GUS support but I guess he dosen't care, I'm happy
> with Midas, if MOD4WIN eventually supports the GUS I may or may not switch
> back.  I prefer to do my file management from DOS.
>

I think Jensi is facing a dilemma. (I know he'll get mad at me for what
I'm about to say, sorry Jensi :-) But Jensi is a Windows man. I sense that
he is counting the seconds 'till DOS is dead. The dilemma is that if you
espouse a unified driver based O.S. then you should not make exceptions
for any given hardware. Yet, many people would love hardware specific
support in M4W. I would like to see it for the GUS and the AWE-32. I'm
sure others would like to see it for the maui, tropez the ATP and other
yet to be dreamed of hardware. So how do you reconcile the two?

I still think the file management in M4W is very appealing. I usually
download everything on a.b.s.mods. To sort through that while playing
them is a lot more effective than listening to a tune, making a note
whether to archive it or keep it on the hard disk and then go on to the
next one.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================



-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 06:58 EET
From: [e-mail] (Kenneth Isaacs)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1725] Re: GUS vs SB

>> People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?
>
>No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
>who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
>going to get GUSes.
>--

You are wrong, i like demo scene but have only a 386 dx 40 with SB Pro and 2
hd 40mb, 5mb ram , if it is good computer for a people with money you are
wrong :-). i Hope i can buy a 485/dx2 50 mhz someday but for now :-(!!




Kenneth Isaacs
Electro
54-02-963-71-37
[e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 07:22 EET
From: Bushy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1726] Re: GUS vs SB

> >No it's not - because I suspect people who follow the demo scene (i.e. people
> >who subscribe to this list) have a lot of money to spend and are therefore
> >going to get GUSes.
> >--
>
> You are wrong, i like demo scene but have only a 386 dx 40 with SB Pro and 2
> hd 40mb, 5mb ram , if it is good computer for a people with money you are
> wrong :-). i Hope i can buy a 485/dx2 50 mhz someday but for now :-(!!

Your quite correct. I am not generalising... but most, or at least some
of the people who are in the demo scene are around 18 to 25 years of age.
(around that age....give or take a few).
Most people around the ages of 18 to 25 are students... go to university/
college/school/whatever... and most students are BANKRUPT!!
We find whatever we can get... (though I am not sure how a few bankrupt
students get the Pentium 90's with the 16 meg RAM, 4xCD-ROM, 1gig HD etc.)
Myself?... I consider myself lucky with a 386sx-16, 2 meg ram, 40mb HD,
80mb HD, and a buggered up SB v2.0.

Bushy.



-----------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 14:41 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1731] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

>Yeah,
>    That sounds great.  Where can I get the program to save/load WAVs
>and RAW from MODs?

try scream tracker 3.2 !! (or any other tracker that can load MODs, for that
matter)

Joost.


-----------------